Dressing for success

[pozorvlak]

I was reading in a climbing magazine last night that there's a thriving women's ice-climbing and mountaineering scene in Iran, and even an annual Iranian women's ice-climbing contest. I couldn't find anything on the net about the contest, but I did find this story on the Alpine Club of Iran's website, suggesting that female mountaineering is indeed alive and well in Iran.

Said climbing magazine¹ claimed that part of the reason is that mountaineering is one of the few sports that can be pursued to a high level (or indeed any level) without Islamic dress codes getting in the way.

I can't decide if that's really cool or just messed up.

Edit: some background to my befuddlement is perhaps necessary. In his memoir Mountaineering in Scotland, W.H. Murray talks about a dog of his, who had been up innumerable mountains with him - indeed, she was a better slab climber than he was - and easily met the criteria for joining the Scottish Mountaineering Club, but was barred by reason of her gender. Species was no obstacle. This was despite the many pioneering ascents which had been made by women in both Scotland and the Alps by this time.

¹ which is, of course, Western, and thus perhaps not in possession of the full facts.

Comments

[neoanjou.livejournal.com]

It Can?

Really?

[steerpikelet.livejournal.com]

Neeeeeil!
Dude, I thought you'd disappeared from the internet! how are you? xx

[wormwood-pearl.livejournal.com]

Islamic dress codes vary a lot, but generally all the skin apart from the face and hands needs to be covered, along with the hair, and the general shape of the body has to be disguised. The number of layers one usually wears for winter mountaineering would achieve this quite well. And niquabis could cover their faces up with a balaclava :)

[necaris.livejournal.com]

+1 true ;-)

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

For reference, here's a photo of Tenzing Norgay on the summit of Everest (http://beacononline.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/tenzing-norgay-on-everest-summit.jpg). Note how much skin he's showing. I'm by no means an expert on sharia, but I'd be astonished if there's an imam in the world who'd consider high-altitude mountaineering clobber to contravene the dress regs for women. The relatively figure-hugging stuff worn by sport ice and mixed climbers might be more of a problem, though it would still cover pretty much everything. Rock climbing in hot climates (as demonstrated here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N70DLM8Az_8) by French rock-climbing legend Catherine Destivelle) would be a whole different kettle of fish, of course.

[steerpikelet.livejournal.com]

Well - with the caveat of extreme cultural difference and anecdata - I don't swim because I'm worried about people looking at my body. I can understand the mindset.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

Not sure I follow you. But yes, it's great that there's a sport suitable for those unwilling or unable to show their bodies. If only it were less expensive and dangerous than ice climbing :-(

[dynix.livejournal.com]

Had this problem, but needed to learn to swim for diving. Ended up swimming in essentially a diving undersuit - was actually after a victorian bathing costume but they're impossible to find.

Do get some funny looks when I tell people that communal showers (same-sex be damned) are way too public.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

You didn't fancy a burkini, then? :-)

BTW, your take on the whole Islamic dress thing (and the Iranian women's mountaineering thing) would be much appreciated, if you feel like sharing it.

[dynix.livejournal.com]

They look adorable, but no:)

My take on the islamic dress thing:
as per victorian dress code, sight of an ankle was enough to induce faintness. The more you cover up, the more you make exotic - to an extent anyway. The veil doesnt make anyone better, it assumes everyone is crap and not to be trusted, and in doing so makes women a target for all sorts of crap.

I dont want to wear the veil, and that the places where wearing it makes sense from a personal protection point of view *frighten the life out of me*, but looking at France for example: I don't think you cant protect women from people telling them what to wear by... telling them what to wear

I might actually I'd be quite in favour of France's ideological attempt if it wasnt handled so idiotically and I have a lot more time for people who research what the hijab is rather than just slinging a burka on.

In terms of sports - its not really the *clothing* that is restricting anybody if they are adamant on wearing hijab

Diving: wear a dry suit
Climbing: this topic has been covered
Cycling: they manage fine in burkha/shalwaar kameez in India/Pakistan

If you assume baggy top and baggy trousers and a hat then the world of skateboarding is open to you. Yes absolutely if you want to be a runner and fully covered up you will get too hot. Or you might research baggy pertex outfits. Restrictions on exposing the body apply to Muslim men as well...

I just think that a lot of girls have to get past the 'girls dont do that' cultural attitude way way way before clothing options become the limiting factor.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

As per victorian dress code, sight of an ankle was enough to induce faintness. The more you cover up, the more you make exotic - to an extent anyway.

I've read (though I can't remember where) that cultures where women go bare-breasted find the Western obsession with breasts totally bizarre - the kind of thing that only babies should display.

Thighs, on the other hand...

[elvum.livejournal.com]

I hope that pun was deliberate.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

Er, which pun?

[johnckirk.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing the bit about ice climbing being cool, although there may be a more subtle pun involving technical terminology that I'm not aware of.

As for your original question, I basically agree with you: if people can enjoy a sport without having to compromise their personal beliefs then that's great, but if it's "risk death or do nothing" then that kind of sucks.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

I also think it's bleakly amusing that a system which (arguably?) oppresses women has led to their success in a traditionally male-dominated sport.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

I don't know how dangerous ice-climbing is, to be honest: it varies hugely, depending on the route you climb, your state of fitness and skill, and the prevailing weather and snow conditions, and to some extent you can pick your preferred level of risk. But overall, I suspect that ice-climbing in a reasonably mainstream venue is not much more dangerous than, say, skiing or horse-riding. On the other hand, it's an incredibly expensive sport, unless you can find someone to lend you all the necessary gear.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

For "skiing", read "off-piste skiing", possibly.

[elvum.livejournal.com]

pursuing mountaineering "to a high level"

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

Oh, right. I think that may have been a direct quote from the article, so blame Climb magazine rather than me.

[roseofoulesfame.livejournal.com]

heh, I noticed that one too.